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February 20th, 2018, 11:48 AM   #1
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Closed Thread: Real Numbers and Limits.

Why was subject thread only closed after I attempted to respond to a question? What I have to say was not said before, that an infinite decimal sequence, THE SEQUENCE, is the real number, not it's calculus limit.

If someone was interested in what I had to say, why couldn't I respond without wading through endless threads?

What difference does one more response make? If you see my name on a thread and feel it's been done before, don't read it.

This is just arbitrary censorship, totally out of place in the spirit of scientific discussion.
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February 20th, 2018, 12:29 PM   #2
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Your post was unclear. There are already various equivalent formal definitions of the reals that a web search would find.
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February 20th, 2018, 02:47 PM   #3
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I think most people on here have got a reasonably clear idea of the stuff you write by now. Clear enough to know that a) it's not worth trying to work out the details; and b) it's more nonsense about Cantor being wrong and/or a failure to understand the infinite.
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February 20th, 2018, 06:21 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by skipjack View Post
Your post was unclear. There are already various equivalent formal definitions of the reals that a web search would find.
I don't think that's valid reason given there are plenty of posts which are unclear and can be resolved by a simple web search.

At this stage it might be useful to consult the rules of other, larger forums. However I suspect that similar actions would be made on say, Stack Exchange.

Zylo, have you tried any other forums? If you find your posts elsewhere are receiving attention and not being closed then perhaps you can claim the decision made here was poor.
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February 20th, 2018, 08:06 PM   #5
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I speak in support of Zylo.

I like free speech. If you don't like what Zylo posts, don't read his posts.

I've done some of my best work on this forum in response to Zylo's posts. I learned more about the complex exponential function replying to Zylo's ideas about the fundamental theorem of algebra; than I did when I took complex variables lo those many moons ago. I wish I'd paid the same amount of attention back then.

Many of you get your buttons pushed by Zylo's posts. I find myself challenged to craft the cleanest, clearest, exposition I can; and to drive proofs down to the last detail. It's often the "alternative" posters that bring out my self-discipline. I don't know why that is, but it is.

If you don't like Zylo, don't read his posts. Or if you accidentally read one, just move on. For example, I personally dislike it when students post dark, blurry images of their homework, usually turned sideways. I never bother to figure out what their question is. Occasionally I give photography tips (shine a light on it and try to get it in focus). But most often I just click on something else. I just leave the thread.

I notice that some people here take the trouble to read the question and offer answers. That's your choice. You have your choice, I have mine. Wouldn't it be rude of me to hurl personal attacks at every hapless kid with a smartphone camera he or she doesn't know how to use?

I'm fascinated to watch how Zylo pushes people's buttons. If Zylo pushes your buttons, WHY do you think that is? You don't mind the sports stream spam. You don't mind the dark, blurry, sideways homework. You don't mind the upper division students who ask hard questions and never show a stitch of work. You don't mind the Collatz brigade, the surrealists (you know, the ones whose posts are so strange they inspire everyone to join in the fun and create surrealist performance art in the thread). You tolerate FLT'ers galore.

But you mind Zylo. He drives you nuts. Why is that? I often see people mocking Zylo then showing their own misunderstandings. Does Zylo play the fool to show the foibles of others? Sometimes it seems that way to me. Rather than challenge themselves to respond as clearly and correctly to his points as they can; people would rather throw rocks.

@Joppy, You mentioned Stackexchange. The entire purpose of a forum like this is that it's not Stackexchange. Questions that have answers with no discussion allowed and precious little humor. I'm a daily reader for several years and in all that time there's only one person who occasionally makes a little joke in the comments, and he's a professional set theorist with 279,000 points over there. (I'm the only other person who occasionally makes little jokes there).

On this forum people make bad jokes. say silly things. Many of the regulars post nonsense when they're having fun.

We WANT fun. That's why I'm here and not on Stackexchange. Let's not all take ourselves quite so seriously. This is not the proceedings of the Royal Society over here. And we should keep it that way. Because there's only one Stackexchange, and it's not a discussion forum. This is a discussion forum. Let's open it up to discussion.

Don't like something someone wrote? Click on something else. It's the Internet. There's a lot of other stuff to click on.

And when you find that THIS pushes your buttons but THAT doesn't ... it's the very things that push your buttons the most that are the keys to self-knowledge. The thing is out there. But your reaction to the thing ... is in you.
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Last edited by skipjack; February 20th, 2018 at 09:28 PM.
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February 20th, 2018, 08:29 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post

@Joppy, You mentioned Stackexchange. The entire purpose of a forum like this is that it's not Stackexchange. Questions that have answers with no discussion allowed and precious little humor. I'm a daily reader for several years and in all that time there's only one person who occasionally makes a little joke in the comments, and he's a professional set theorist with 279,000 points over there. (I'm the only other person who occasionally makes little jokes there).
I totally agree with this of course. It's the reason I spend a lot of time lurking here. I wasn't at all suggesting we adapt the rules of stack exchange, just that Zylo get a second opinion for his own defense, since a decision was made to close the thread, something regular users cannot do or undo. But I admit that wasn't clear,.
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February 20th, 2018, 08:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post
I speak in support of Zylo.

I like free speech. If you don't like what Zylo posts, don't read his posts.

I've done some of my best work on this forum in response to Zylo's posts. I learned more about the complex exponential function replying to Zylo's ideas about the fundamental theorem of algebra; than I did when I took complex variables lo those many moons ago. I wish I'd paid the same amount of attention back then.

Many of you get your buttons pushed by Zylo's posts. I find myself challenged to craft the cleanest, clearest, exposition I can; and to drive proofs down to the last detail. It's often the "alternative" posters that bring out my self-discipline. I don't know why that is, but it is.

If you don't like Zylo, don't read his posts. Or if you accidentally read one, just move on. For example, I personally dislike it when students post dark, blurry images of their homework, usually turned sideways. I never bother to figure out what their question is. Occasionally I give photography tips (shine a light on it and try to get it in focus). But most often I just click on something else. I just leave the thread.

I notice that some people here take the trouble to read the question and offer answers. That's your choice. You have your choice, I have mine. Wouldn't it be rude of me to hurl personal attacks at every hapless kid with a smartphone camera he or she doesn't know how to use?

I'm fascinated to watch how Zylo pushes people's buttons. If Zylo pushes your buttons, WHY do you think that is? You don't mind the sports stream spam. You don't mind the dark, blurry, sideways homework. You don't mind the upper division students who ask hard questions and never show a stitch of work. You don't mind the Collatz brigade, the surrealists (you know, the ones whose posts are so strange they inspire everyone to join in the fun and create surrealist performance art in the thread). You tolerate FLT'ers galore.

But you mind Zylo. He drives you nuts. Why is that? I often see people mocking Zylo then showing their own misunderstandings. Does Zylo play the fool to show the foibles of others? Sometimes it seems that way to me. Rather than challenge themselves to respond as clearly and correctly to his points as they can; people would rather throw rocks.

@Joppy, You mentioned Stackexchange. The entire purpose of a forum like this is that it's not Stackexchange. Questions that have answers with no discussion allowed and precious little humor. I'm a daily reader for several years and in all that time there's only one person who occasionally makes a little joke in the comments, and he's a professional set theorist with 279,000 points over there. (I'm the only other person who occasionally makes little jokes there).

On this forum people make bad jokes. say silly things. Many of the regulars post nonsense when they're having fun.

We WANT fun. That's why I'm here and not on Stackexchange. Let's not all take ourselves quite so seriously. This is not the proceedings of the Royal Society over here. And we should keep it that way. Because there's only one Stackexchange, and it's not a discussion forum. This is a discussion forum. Let's open it up to discussion.

Don't like something someone wrote? Click on something else. It's the Internet. There's a lot of other stuff to click on.

And when you find that THIS pushes your buttons but THAT doesn't ... it's the very things that push your buttons the most that are the keys to self-knowledge. The thing is out there. But your reaction to the thing ... is in you.
I completely agree with all of this.

Last edited by skipjack; February 20th, 2018 at 09:30 PM.
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February 20th, 2018, 09:18 PM   #8
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This forum isn't the place for the propagation of crank mathematics.

I have to read zylo's posts because I'm a moderator. It never fails that, in any thread he starts, there is the same old bickering and repetition, characterized by zylo being confronted with his own mis-truths and his avoidance of them. If you folks want to indulge in such things, you'll have to do so elsewhere, at least for as long as I'm a moderator here.
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February 20th, 2018, 10:00 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post
I speak in support of Zylo.

I like free speech. If you don't like what Zylo posts, don't read his posts.
I have no choice - I'm a moderator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post

I've done some of my best work on this forum in response to Zylo's posts. I learned more about the complex exponential function replying to Zylo's ideas about the fundamental theorem of algebra; than I did when I took complex variables lo those many moons ago. I wish I'd paid the same amount of attention back then.
Alright then, do you require such an environment for learning? How has that improved your ability to post help in other topics?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post

Many of you get your buttons pushed by Zylo's posts. I find myself challenged to craft the cleanest, clearest, exposition I can; and to drive proofs down to the last detail. It's often the "alternative" posters that bring out my self-discipline. I don't know why that is, but it is.
I don't know either. Too bad you're wasting your best work responding to a crank instead of posting it where it will be truly appreciated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post

If you don't like Zylo, don't read his posts. Or if you accidentally read one, just move on. For example, I personally dislike it when students post dark, blurry images of their homework, usually turned sideways. I never bother to figure out what their question is. Occasionally I give photography tips (shine a light on it and try to get it in focus). But most often I just click on something else. I just leave the thread.
zylo has talent. He has proved that - he's most probably better at mathematics than I am. But that doesn't justify the fact that he chooses to be a crank.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post

I notice that some people here take the trouble to read the question and offer answers. That's your choice. You have your choice, I have mine. Wouldn't it be rude of me to hurl personal attacks at every hapless kid with a smartphone camera he or she doesn't know how to use?
Certain other members are not helpful when it comes to such issues but that is not to say that zylo is either. Cranks can be dangerous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post

I'm fascinated to watch how Zylo pushes people's buttons. If Zylo pushes your buttons, WHY do you think that is? You don't mind the sports stream spam. You don't mind the dark, blurry, sideways homework. You don't mind the upper division students who ask hard questions and never show a stitch of work. You don't mind the Collatz brigade, the surrealists (you know, the ones whose posts are so strange they inspire everyone to join in the fun and create surrealist performance art in the thread). You tolerate FLT'ers galore.
How do you know what I mind and don't mind? This is purely presumptuous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post

But you mind Zylo. He drives you nuts. Why is that? I often see people mocking Zylo then showing their own misunderstandings. Does Zylo play the fool to show the foibles of others? Sometimes it seems that way to me. Rather than challenge themselves to respond as clearly and correctly to his points as they can; people would rather throw rocks.
That's a rather perverse way of getting the point across. Yes, other members are not helpful in their responses to zylo's posts and zylo is not one to give credibility to any work others may post if it contradicts his ideas concerning whatever. And that's a big part of what I'm trying to say here - it amounts to abuse - on both sides. I'm not prepared to stand by and watch such misuse of the forum. As a moderator I think I am responsible for:
  • keeping the tone congenial
  • deleting spam
  • keeping crank posts to a minimum
  • banning members who consistently post in contradiction of these "rules"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post

@Joppy, You mentioned Stackexchange. The entire purpose of a forum like this is that it's not Stackexchange. Questions that have answers with no discussion allowed and precious little humor. I'm a daily reader for several years and in all that time there's only one person who occasionally makes a little joke in the comments, and he's a professional set theorist with 279,000 points over there. (I'm the only other person who occasionally makes little jokes there).

On this forum people make bad jokes. say silly things. Many of the regulars post nonsense when they're having fun.

We WANT fun. That's why I'm here and not on Stackexchange. Let's not all take ourselves quite so seriously. This is not the proceedings of the Royal Society over here. And we should keep it that way. Because there's only one Stackexchange, and it's not a discussion forum. This is a discussion forum. Let's open it up to discussion.
Good point, but when the discussion fails to remain congenial, what then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post

Don't like something someone wrote? Click on something else. It's the Internet. There's a lot of other stuff to click on.
My point exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post

And when you find that THIS pushes your buttons but THAT doesn't ... it's the very things that push your buttons the most that are the keys to self-knowledge. The thing is out there. But your reaction to the thing ... is in you.
How much of that is based on assumptions that may or may not be accurate? Really I couldn't care less about what zylo posts but when it becomes detrimental to the forum I am forced to get involved. At any rate I am now inclined to lighten up a little so we'll see how things go from here. Thanks, and I hope I haven't scared you away.
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Last edited by greg1313; February 20th, 2018 at 10:33 PM.
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February 20th, 2018, 10:34 PM   #10
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Can we put a poll on crank worthy threads or something? Or indicate in some way that the question is perhaps unconventional so that innocent onlookers are more careful in what they take away..
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