My Math Forum Perpetual Motion, The Myth of Free Energy

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 June 5th, 2018, 05:59 AM #1 Member   Joined: Oct 2017 From: Japan Posts: 62 Thanks: 3 Perpetual Motion, The Myth of Free Energy Please let me know if I am overposting. For those interested here is a video debunking a common myth about perpetual motion machines.
 June 5th, 2018, 09:34 AM #2 Senior Member   Joined: May 2015 From: Arlington, VA Posts: 384 Thanks: 27 Math Focus: Number theory Zero-point energy has been considered as a basis for harnessing practical "perpetual motion." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy
 June 5th, 2018, 09:51 AM #3 Senior Member   Joined: Aug 2012 Posts: 2,043 Thanks: 583 Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? If the answer is that it's the vacuum energy of space, where did that come from? If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, isn't the original energy of the universe essentially perpetual? And even if entropy causes the energy of the universe to become uniformly distributed and therefore useless, it's still the same amount of energy present at the Big Bang, yes? What does science say about all this?
June 5th, 2018, 10:00 AM   #4
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 Originally Posted by Maschke Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? If the answer is that it's the vacuum energy of space, where did that come from? If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, isn't the original energy of the universe essentially perpetual? And even if entropy causes the energy of the universe to become uniformly distributed and therefore useless, it's still the same amount of energy present at the Big Bang, yes? What does science say about all this?
A similar question. We know the universe is expanding. The volume of the vacuum in constantly increasing. If there is non-zero vacuum energy then energy must be constantly being created as all of this "new" vacuum contains it.

There may be tricky geometries going on where the "volume" of space-time is akin to a surface area and that this surface area can expand without actually increasing the volume it contains. Something along the lines of a fractal boundary. I'm getting well beyond my actual understanding, but otherwise we must accept that energy is constantly being created.

Similarly it may be that space-time can also crunch if the energy density is high enough. This would lead to energy being destroyed. Kinda makes you wonder if there aren't two universes coexisting and sharing energy, one expanding while the other is contracting. Again I'm well past my actual understanding of the math.

And with that I depart.

June 6th, 2018, 01:33 AM   #5
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 Originally Posted by Maschke Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? If the answer is that it's the vacuum energy of space, where did that come from? If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, isn't the original energy of the universe essentially perpetual? And even if entropy causes the energy of the universe to become uniformly distributed and therefore useless, it's still the same amount of energy present at the Big Bang, yes? What does science say about all this?
Cosmogenesis, zero-point energy and cosmology are all poorly understood problems in physics, so not a lot.

Last edited by Benit13; June 6th, 2018 at 01:36 AM.

June 6th, 2018, 11:39 PM   #6
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 Originally Posted by romsek We know the universe is expanding. The volume of the vacuum in constantly increasing. If there is non-zero vacuum energy then energy must be constantly being created as all of this "new" vacuum contains it.
If the vacuum expands, why would there need to be more energy? The amount of energy per unit volume of vacuum may not be constant.

 June 7th, 2018, 10:32 PM #7 Member   Joined: Oct 2017 From: Japan Posts: 62 Thanks: 3 Those are interesting and tantalising concepts but there is nothing tangible at the moment as far as extracting energy from the zero-point energy field. My video is more practical, it mainly refers to mechanical machines which supposedly create energy from nothing.

 Tags energy, free, motion, myth, perpetual

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