My Math Forum  

Go Back   My Math Forum > Science Forums > Physics

Physics Physics Forum


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
June 5th, 2018, 05:59 AM   #1
Member
 
Joined: Oct 2017
From: Japan

Posts: 60
Thanks: 3

Perpetual Motion, The Myth of Free Energy

Please let me know if I am overposting. For those interested here is a video debunking a common myth about perpetual motion machines.
rudimt is offline  
 
June 5th, 2018, 09:34 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Joined: May 2015
From: Arlington, VA

Posts: 371
Thanks: 26

Math Focus: Number theory
Zero-point energy has been considered as a basis for harnessing practical "perpetual motion."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy
Loren is offline  
June 5th, 2018, 09:51 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Joined: Aug 2012

Posts: 1,971
Thanks: 550

Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? If the answer is that it's the vacuum energy of space, where did that come from? If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, isn't the original energy of the universe essentially perpetual? And even if entropy causes the energy of the universe to become uniformly distributed and therefore useless, it's still the same amount of energy present at the Big Bang, yes? What does science say about all this?
Maschke is offline  
June 5th, 2018, 10:00 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
romsek's Avatar
 
Joined: Sep 2015
From: USA

Posts: 2,039
Thanks: 1063

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post
Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? If the answer is that it's the vacuum energy of space, where did that come from? If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, isn't the original energy of the universe essentially perpetual? And even if entropy causes the energy of the universe to become uniformly distributed and therefore useless, it's still the same amount of energy present at the Big Bang, yes? What does science say about all this?
A similar question. We know the universe is expanding. The volume of the vacuum in constantly increasing. If there is non-zero vacuum energy then energy must be constantly being created as all of this "new" vacuum contains it.

There may be tricky geometries going on where the "volume" of space-time is akin to a surface area and that this surface area can expand without actually increasing the volume it contains. Something along the lines of a fractal boundary. I'm getting well beyond my actual understanding, but otherwise we must accept that energy is constantly being created.

Similarly it may be that space-time can also crunch if the energy density is high enough. This would lead to energy being destroyed. Kinda makes you wonder if there aren't two universes coexisting and sharing energy, one expanding while the other is contracting. Again I'm well past my actual understanding of the math.

And with that I depart.
romsek is offline  
June 6th, 2018, 01:33 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2014
From: Glasgow

Posts: 2,124
Thanks: 714

Math Focus: Physics, mathematical modelling, numerical and computational solutions
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maschke View Post
Where did the energy for the Big Bang come from? If the answer is that it's the vacuum energy of space, where did that come from? If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, isn't the original energy of the universe essentially perpetual? And even if entropy causes the energy of the universe to become uniformly distributed and therefore useless, it's still the same amount of energy present at the Big Bang, yes?

What does science say about all this?
Cosmogenesis, zero-point energy and cosmology are all poorly understood problems in physics, so not a lot.

Last edited by Benit13; June 6th, 2018 at 01:36 AM.
Benit13 is offline  
June 6th, 2018, 11:39 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2014
From: UK

Posts: 877
Thanks: 319

Quote:
Originally Posted by romsek View Post
We know the universe is expanding. The volume of the vacuum in constantly increasing. If there is non-zero vacuum energy then energy must be constantly being created as all of this "new" vacuum contains it.
If the vacuum expands, why would there need to be more energy? The amount of energy per unit volume of vacuum may not be constant.
weirddave is offline  
June 7th, 2018, 10:32 PM   #7
Member
 
Joined: Oct 2017
From: Japan

Posts: 60
Thanks: 3

Those are interesting and tantalising concepts but there is nothing tangible at the moment as far as extracting energy from the zero-point energy field. My video is more practical, it mainly refers to mechanical machines which supposedly create energy from nothing.
rudimt is offline  
Reply

  My Math Forum > Science Forums > Physics

Tags
energy, free, motion, myth, perpetual



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Physics Myth or Reality? rudimt Physics 10 May 29th, 2018 05:42 AM
What is a perpetual motion machine? rudimt Physics 23 May 26th, 2018 09:32 PM
Free Fall Motion. jiasyuen Physics 1 May 14th, 2015 07:18 AM
Free Fall Motion Under Gravity. jiasyuen Physics 6 May 14th, 2015 02:16 AM





Copyright © 2018 My Math Forum. All rights reserved.