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 June 29th, 2017, 02:43 AM #1 Member   Joined: May 2017 From: France Posts: 57 Thanks: 1 The physics of bags Hello, I would like to describe a physics of the bags, but if that already exists there is no need to reinvent the hot water. Indeed, to base his theory on logic is dangerous, because it is dead or doomed to die, not in a long time. The physics of the bags is an analog of ZFC, but constructed from the physical model of the bags and validate by this model, instead of constructing a theory and asking the question of the model, I start from the model and tries to describe A theory (just like in physics). Thank you. PS: I am an ET (Theoretical Experimenter or Enigmologist). Cordially. The french version : Salut, J'aimerais décrire une physique des sacs, mais si cela existe déjà inutile de réinventer l'eau chaude. En effet faire reposer sa théorie sur la logique est dangereux, car elle est morte ou vouée à mourrir, dans pas longtemps. La physique des sacs est un analogue de ZFC, mais construit à partir du modéle physique des sacs et valider par ce modéle, au lieu de construire une théorie et de se poser la question du modéle, je part du modéle et essaie d'en décrire une théorie (tout comme en physique). Merci. PS : Je suis un ET (Expérimentateur Théorique ou Enigmologue). Cordialement.
June 29th, 2017, 05:50 AM   #2
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 Originally Posted by Dattier Hello, I would like to describe a physics of the bags, but if that already exists there is no need to reinvent the hot water.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'bags'. Do you mean literal bags (containers like ruck-sacks, luggage or carrier bags) or do you mean something else?

 June 29th, 2017, 07:02 AM #3 Senior Member   Joined: Feb 2016 From: Australia Posts: 1,600 Thanks: 546 Math Focus: Yet to find out. Thanks from Benit13
June 29th, 2017, 07:11 AM   #4
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Benit13 I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'bags'. Do you mean literal bags (containers like ruck-sacks, luggage or carrier bags) or do you mean something else?
I think he's trying to find a physical analogue to set theory, and the 'bags' he refers to are sets. Or he could be referring to multisets, which are also known by the name of 'bags'.

 June 29th, 2017, 08:08 AM #5 Math Team   Joined: Jul 2011 From: Texas Posts: 2,756 Thanks: 1407 Physics bags ... paper or plastic?
 June 29th, 2017, 08:39 AM #6 Math Team   Joined: Oct 2011 From: Ottawa Ontario, Canada Posts: 12,751 Thanks: 860 Thanks from Benit13
 June 29th, 2017, 11:52 AM #7 Senior Member   Joined: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,956 Thanks: 547 I've heard the term bags meaning multisets; that is, "sets" that contain the same item more than once, such as $[1,1,2]$. I don't know anything about them but I think they're studied in computer science.
 July 3rd, 2017, 08:49 AM #8 Math Team   Joined: Jan 2015 From: Alabama Posts: 3,236 Thanks: 884 It would help if Datier would come back and clarify what is meant.
 July 3rd, 2017, 11:23 AM #9 Member   Joined: May 2017 From: France Posts: 57 Thanks: 1 Hi, It's like a set theory, with a lot of empty set (empty bags). And two bag is the same, if "le contenu" is the same and "le contenant" too. Cordially.
 July 6th, 2017, 08:18 AM #10 Senior Member   Joined: Apr 2014 From: Glasgow Posts: 2,119 Thanks: 710 Math Focus: Physics, mathematical modelling, numerical and computational solutions Okay... with a little bit of further reading, I think I understand what you mean. I was thinking of electron orbitals in atoms because they discrete mathematics plays a roll and there are sometimes sets of possible states, but I don't think they are multi-sets because the Pauli Exclusion will prevent particles with the same quantum numbers existing in the same system, so you'll have unique sets in that case. You might have more luck with Bose-Einstein condensates or other bosonic systems that are not constrained by the Pauli exclusion principle, but then you'll have a system which has continuous states rather than discrete states, so set theory isn't particularly relevant for those either. The wikipedia page on multi-sets (thanks for the link) hints at statistical mechanics and partition functions, spcifically with regards to cumulant-generating functions. I think that's probably a good physical phenomenon where multi-set concepts are relevant. In those cases you have a partition function which is used to calculate, for a given distribution, the set of possible thermodynamic states a system of particles has. certain descriptors of those functions are multi-sets apparently

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