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June 29th, 2017, 02:43 AM   #1
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The physics of bags

Hello,

I would like to describe a physics of the bags, but if that already exists there is no need to reinvent the hot water.
Indeed, to base his theory on logic is dangerous, because it is dead or doomed to die, not in a long time.

The physics of the bags is an analog of ZFC, but constructed from the physical model of the bags and validate by this model, instead of constructing a theory and asking the question of the model, I start from the model and tries to describe A theory (just like in physics).

Thank you.

PS: I am an ET (Theoretical Experimenter or Enigmologist).

Cordially.

The french version :

Salut,

J'aimerais décrire une physique des sacs, mais si cela existe déjà inutile de réinventer l'eau chaude.
En effet faire reposer sa théorie sur la logique est dangereux, car elle est morte ou vouée à mourrir, dans pas longtemps.

La physique des sacs est un analogue de ZFC, mais construit à partir du modéle physique des sacs et valider par ce modéle, au lieu de construire une théorie et de se poser la question du modéle, je part du modéle et essaie d'en décrire une théorie (tout comme en physique).

Merci.

PS : Je suis un ET (Expérimentateur Théorique ou Enigmologue).

Cordialement.
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June 29th, 2017, 05:50 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dattier View Post
Hello,

I would like to describe a physics of the bags, but if that already exists there is no need to reinvent the hot water.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'bags'. Do you mean literal bags (containers like ruck-sacks, luggage or carrier bags) or do you mean something else?
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June 29th, 2017, 07:02 AM   #3
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June 29th, 2017, 07:11 AM   #4
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I'm not sure I understand what you mean by 'bags'. Do you mean literal bags (containers like ruck-sacks, luggage or carrier bags) or do you mean something else?
I think he's trying to find a physical analogue to set theory, and the 'bags' he refers to are sets. Or he could be referring to multisets, which are also known by the name of 'bags'.
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June 29th, 2017, 08:08 AM   #5
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Physics bags ... paper or plastic?
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June 29th, 2017, 08:39 AM   #6
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June 29th, 2017, 11:52 AM   #7
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I've heard the term bags meaning multisets; that is, "sets" that contain the same item more than once, such as $[1,1,2]$. I don't know anything about them but I think they're studied in computer science.
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July 3rd, 2017, 08:49 AM   #8
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It would help if Datier would come back and clarify what is meant.
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July 3rd, 2017, 11:23 AM   #9
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Hi,

It's like a set theory, with a lot of empty set (empty bags).
And two bag is the same, if "le contenu" is the same and "le contenant" too.

Cordially.
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July 6th, 2017, 08:18 AM   #10
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Okay... with a little bit of further reading, I think I understand what you mean.

I was thinking of electron orbitals in atoms because they discrete mathematics plays a roll and there are sometimes sets of possible states, but I don't think they are multi-sets because the Pauli Exclusion will prevent particles with the same quantum numbers existing in the same system, so you'll have unique sets in that case. You might have more luck with Bose-Einstein condensates or other bosonic systems that are not constrained by the Pauli exclusion principle, but then you'll have a system which has continuous states rather than discrete states, so set theory isn't particularly relevant for those either.

The wikipedia page on multi-sets (thanks for the link) hints at statistical mechanics and partition functions, spcifically with regards to cumulant-generating functions. I think that's probably a good physical phenomenon where multi-set concepts are relevant. In those cases you have a partition function which is used to calculate, for a given distribution, the set of possible thermodynamic states a system of particles has. certain descriptors of those functions are multi-sets apparently
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