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 October 17th, 2016, 09:56 PM #1 Senior Member   Joined: May 2015 From: Arlington, VA Posts: 240 Thanks: 23 Math Focus: Number theory Subatomic dark matter Could dark matter reside within subatomic particles? Neutrinos, Higgs particles, Planck black holes (Wheeler's "geons") and even quarks and gluons are my possible candidates for such confinement.
October 18th, 2016, 01:26 AM   #2
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No one knows what dark matter is. Everything known (baryons) has been considered already. You could spend a lifetime studying it.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Benit13 Firstly, dark energy and dark matter are unrelated, except for the fact that no one knows what they are. That means they deserve separate explanations. The dark matter problem: In astronomy, light is the source of everything we know about the Universe. Using Doppler imaging (spectral analysis) we can estimate the velocity of something, like a Seyfert galaxy's spiral arm, but sometimes the velocity we estimate doesn't seem to mesh well with the velocity we would expect from Kepler's laws. Therefore, to resolve this issue, we need to think of a solution: i) The imaging is incorrect: this has already been ruled out. Besides, Spectral analysis is very well understood compared to other aspects of astronomy/astrophysics, so the velocities determined are reliable ii) There is missing matter: to be specific, there is matter that is contributing to the dynamics of a galaxy's spin, but is not emitting light. Therefore, dark matter could very well be just normal (i.e. baryonic) matter that simply isn't emitting light (like gas, dust, planets, asteroids, rocks, ice, etc.). However, all estimates of the amount of dark matter from baryonic matter seem to be far too low to account for the motion. Therefore, this has led many to believe that there is some other kind of matter that we don't know about and has led to the "dark matter search", an effort by the physics community to try and detect particles at an all manner of different energies. iii) There is missing physics: what if the estimates of the motion are wrong? The physicists in this camp research MOND (MOdified Newtonian Dynamics) and try and rectify the velocity disagreement using modified physics. IMHO, both camps present interesting evidence for resolutions of the dark matter problem, but none of that evidence is sufficient enough at the moment to rule out the other camp. The issue is further complicated by the fact that some galaxies have been observed to have motion completely consistent with their Doppler velocity estimates, so it seems some galaxies have dark matter and some don't! The dark energy problem: I don't know too much about this one, but the main idea is that recent experiments of Type Ia supernovae in the early Universe seem to indicate at an early time of the Universe's expansion (inflation), the Universe was/is accelerating. That is, the supernova progenitors were increasing in velocity over time. What could cause such an acceleration? Again, the problem remains unsolved, but we call it "dark energy" for now until something better comes along. I imagine that at some point, dark energy will be understood through a similar route that dark matter seems to have taken. That is, the experimental data will hold true, so we either have missing energy or missing physics. Both problems are extremely difficult and there is extensive literature published to propose solutions to both of them. I advise reading them because they can be really interesting

 October 18th, 2016, 04:08 AM #3 Senior Member   Joined: May 2015 From: Arlington, VA Posts: 240 Thanks: 23 Math Focus: Number theory Thank you for your overview, Benit. What is novel about my speculation is that significant dark matter could be hidden in the subatomic realm, within us and our constituents, rather than just the outer reaches of galaxies and beyond. Besides light as a source, we now have gravitational waves, neutrinos and Higgs particles. The last I read about MOND (around 2010) was interesting and inventive, but inconclusive.
October 18th, 2016, 04:22 AM   #4
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 Originally Posted by Loren Thank you for your overview, Benit. What is novel about my speculation is that significant dark matter could be hidden in the subatomic realm, within us and our constituents, rather than just the outer reaches of galaxies and beyond. Besides light as a source, we now have gravitational waves, neutrinos and Higgs particles. The last I read about MOND (around 2010) was interesting and inventive, but inconclusive.
The only two ways that dark matter could exist "inside" a subatomic particle is for that particle to have some kind of "property" (like spin, for example) or that it is not an elementary particle. The second of these possibilities rules out particles like electrons, photons, quarks, etc. If there is a property that dark matter obeys we haven't found it yet.

There are suggestions for dark matter candidates in the subatomic realm. One possibility is that neutrinos have mass or that dark matter is contained in WIMPs (Weakly Interacting Massive Particles). Neutrino mass is a touchy subject and no good candidate for a WIMP has been discovered.

-Dan

October 18th, 2016, 06:09 AM   #5
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 Originally Posted by Loren Thank you for your overview, Benit. What is novel about my speculation is that significant dark matter could be hidden in the subatomic realm, within us and our constituents, rather than just the outer reaches of galaxies and beyond.
It's not a new idea unfortunately!

Quote:
 Besides light as a source, we now have gravitational waves, neutrinos and Higgs particles.
Yep. Have fun reading the literature

Quote:
 The last I read about MOND (around 2010) was interesting and inventive, but inconclusive.
Yep. It's just as inconclusive as the missing matter stuff. It's fun$\displaystyle ^{TM}$

 November 2nd, 2016, 10:19 PM #6 Senior Member   Joined: Dec 2012 Posts: 951 Thanks: 23 I'm always intrigued by what is already unknown, and I would like to know if this hypothesis has already been considered: If we suppose our universe it's a finite big bubble, due to well known "gravity" there must be a very big surface tension. Considering that at the border of this bubble the only think we will find (after we left the "dust" zone... are rays (light, gamma radiation etc...) 2 only (for me of course !) hypotesis can be formulated: - ray will left the bubble, so we have a loss of energy, entropy etc... - ray will NOT left the blubble, so we have a closed system and ray beahaviour is like a bullet shot in the sky... Since Newton, talking about light, fails and the fact that entropy seems "sort" everithink, the most probable case is: "Mr Scotty, we are loosing energy !" This loss of energy build a sort of field that can or cannot interact woth other universe in relation to their relative distance... And we again have to make the hypotesis that an hypermassive black hole tossed out all that universe... and so on, ... but at the end, we don't know how far ($2^{{10}^{10}}$) there will be a "final" moving at light speed surface... where the tension will be the littlest force possible... ... and since we know also Einstein fails saying that nothing can fly faster than light... all that is probably wrong... We have to let our kid's dream free to let us be proud of them...
 November 3rd, 2016, 01:27 PM #7 Senior Member   Joined: May 2015 From: Arlington, VA Posts: 240 Thanks: 23 Math Focus: Number theory No information can travel faster than the speed of light. Check out Einstein's field equations, e.g. surface tension, as they apply to models of the universe (or a black hole). Radiation of light usually increases entropy. A light ray is substantially different from a bullet, but the latter could be applied to some of Einstein's Gedanken (thought) experiments. Please explain how your post relates to the topic at hand. I encourage you to keep on studying your life's work, though. You'll eventually need graduate education, established mentors and self-persistence. If you love physics and show an aptitude there, I suggest you consider undergraduate level courses in the field. I guess that you would first benefit from a basic physics course in high school or equivalently, online. I request you find a thread that has more to do with your specific interests. Last edited by Loren; November 3rd, 2016 at 01:32 PM.
 November 3rd, 2016, 10:08 PM #8 Senior Member   Joined: Dec 2012 Posts: 951 Thanks: 23 Loren... Loren... Loren.... What we know now is little more than nothing... Also Einstain, as Newton will be for our kids just one that discover (just) a better approximated model of the truth, what luckily we are very far from. At the mkoment we are not able to prove an information can or cannot move faster than light, but inflation theory, if true, suggest it can. And it's just question to understand that the information is (or can be) pushed out by an hyper-massive black hole at hyperlight speed in form of what we call "a new universe". The information cannot goes out from the bubble, till it will not collide with it's targhet. "Collision" means the two surfaces of the two bubbles get in contact... If you really wanna make research, pls, be open to everyone, also to who you think is not at your level... (...you think...) Ciao Stefano Last edited by complicatemodulus; November 3rd, 2016 at 10:11 PM.
November 4th, 2016, 02:57 AM   #9
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by complicatemodulus Loren... Loren... Loren.... What we know now is little more than nothing...
This is not true. Dark matter and dark energy are very difficult problems for sure, but there is progress in those fields. Read the literature!

Quote:
 Also Einstain, as Newton will be for our kids just one that discover (just) a better approximated model of the truth, what luckily we are very far from. At the mkoment we are not able to prove an information can or cannot move faster than light, but inflation theory, if true, suggest it can.
Inflation theory doesn't suggest that at all. Although the inflation rate can exceed the speed of light, there is nothing to suggest that the contents of that space are travelling faster than light relative to the surrounding matter. All super-luminal observations (e.g. OMEGA experiment) have so far been experimental errors.

Quote:
 And it's just question to understand that the information is (or can be) pushed out by an hyper-massive black hole at hyperlight speed in form of what we call "a new universe". The information cannot goes out from the bubble, till it will not collide with it's targhet. "Collision" means the two surfaces of the two bubbles get in contact... If you really wanna make research, pls, be open to everyone, also to who you think is not at your level... (...you think...) Ciao Stefano
But you're not really doing research... you're just making stuff up with no thought to the existing studies. It's good fun and no one's going to stop you, but the result is poetry at best.

If you really want to know about dark matter and dark energy, read the literature. There's plenty to read!

November 4th, 2016, 03:15 AM   #10
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 Originally Posted by Benit13 But you're not really doing research... you're just making stuff up with no thought to the existing studies. It's good fun and no one's going to stop you, but the result is poetry at best.
If you've a link to an advanced study on superluminar info transmission pls let me know, I'll be glad to read it !

I'm of couse not directly involved in that filed so for sure at CERN you'll find more or many answers to your problems... but I'm still missconfindent fullish energy sucker will really find somethink of very usefull.

I still believe we have now the theoretical instruments to skip for several years the "fabrication" of stupid mega-machine like laser fuser etc...

I very hope we will be able to create and controll fusion in our hands in a very short time, for sure before it's too "carbon/atomic" later...

Thanks
ciao
Stefano

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