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July 4th, 2010, 08:50 PM   #1
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Hello world!

Ok, I'm what some people consider "math passionate". I kinda have a love of numbers and I really enjoy patterns and just doing math in general. I love math jokes, even though some of them may get inappropriate, and I'm pretty good at manipulating numbers. I just finished AP calculus and I'm waiting for my score to arrive in the mail, (not willing to spend 8 dollars to get them early). anyway, I like to have fun with numbers, and I'm pretty good at explaining it. There aren't a lot of people around here (as in my home town) that understand the significance of mathematics, but I have come to understand not only its humor, but also it's beauty. Math is everywhere, and as much as we like to think we invented it, we only discovered it. Math is everywhere in nature: pine cones, rainbows, river beads, tree branches, snow flakes... the list goes on. Just look at chemistry and you will see how structured everything is.

So I guess in summary, I like having fun with math, and I'm not afraid to acknowledge its beauty.
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July 5th, 2010, 08:09 AM   #2
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Re: Hello world!

Welcome! I'm sure you'll love it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredOne
Math is everywhere, and as much as we like to think we invented it, we only discovered it.
Hah! +1 for my team. Take that, cknapp!
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July 5th, 2010, 09:28 AM   #3
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Re: Hello world!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CRGreathouse
Welcome! I'm sure you'll love it here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredOne
Math is everywhere, and as much as we like to think we invented it, we only discovered it.
Hah! +1 for my team. Take that, cknapp!
There are TEAMS?!?! Math is a revelation of the divine, not an invention of man!
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July 5th, 2010, 10:00 AM   #4
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Re: Hello world!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chaz
There are TEAMS?!?! Math is a revelation of the divine, not an invention of man!
There's disagreement as to whether math is discovered or invented. The side of Righteousness and Truth believes that it was discovered.
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July 5th, 2010, 10:43 AM   #5
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Re: Hello world!

I think it depends on the defenition of "math."

The symbols (1,2,3,+,-,..), names (cosine, prime..) en notation, (a(b+c)=ab+ac, with brackets, without else between letters), are invented; defined if you like by man.

The regularity, expressed by our symbols, notation and names is discovered. We must proof, it is correct. If that was to be invented, every-one could make up regularities, and nothing could be falsified. And there would be room for discussion whether something is wrong or right. What we have found so far, couldn't be falsified like 500 years before discovered if it was known than. Expressed by "our" symbols, 1+1 was, is and always will be 2, mathematically approached.

Hoempa
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July 5th, 2010, 07:41 PM   #6
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Re: Hello world!

In a sense, I guess it is safe to say that in order to discovery something, you need some way to describe it. We describe fire with temperature, a combustion chemical equation, or simple adjectives. In any case, I guess you can say that we invented the language to describe it, but in no way did we invent fire. Similarly, our language of math is just a means of describing what nature is based on. We had to invent something that could define what was already there in order to claim it as a discovery. I've witnessed it in the wild, and seen that "infinite complexity can be described by a simple rule" that is what makes math enjoyable and beautiful to me.

Just as a disclaimer, I acknowledge that there are times when math can really stink, like those times when you work on a problem for 45 minutes or more, check all your work, and still somehow mess it up. That can sometimes be discouraging. Anyway, I'm glad that I found this and i definitely will spend some time helping others out if I get the chance. It's also reasuring to have somebody to go to when I have questions.
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July 6th, 2010, 04:03 PM   #7
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Re: Hello world!

Quote:
Originally Posted by InspiredOne
Similarly, our language of math is just a means of describing what nature is based on. We had to invent something that could define what was already there in order to claim it as a discovery. I've witnessed it in the wild, and seen that "infinite complexity can be described by a simple rule" that is what makes math enjoyable and beautiful to me.
I think it works the other way: mathematics is a tool and a descriptive language. Math is the study of structures in the abstract, and the fact that we find so many things in nature that are described by math is a result of the way we understand our world: we find systems and structures, and we describe them.

A great deal of modern math is highly divorced from reality. Things like non-classical and anti-classical logics, and higher categories are hard to say are something we've discovered in nature. Mathematicians invent structures to study them-- sometimes to describe something nature, sometimes to describe something in math, and other times, simply to understand the difference between those structures and structures which "occur naturally" in other areas of mathematics, or even just because the structure has interesting properties to study. These structures are an invention of the abstract mind. They can be (and often are) used as mental tools, but they are creations.

A mathematical theory could have some brilliant math behind it, but if it does not fit the real world we see around us, it has no relationship to nature. This would not make it any less interesting as mathematics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoempa
The regularity, expressed by our symbols, notation and names is discovered. We must proof, it is correct. If that was to be invented, every-one could make up regularities, and nothing could be falsified. And there would be room for discussion whether something is wrong or right.
Two questions. I'll respond to this when I see how you answer them.
Is true?
Is true?
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July 6th, 2010, 06:18 PM   #8
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Re: Hello world!

Since I don't know where you're going with this, I hope I can speak as a member of the indended audience...

What are "+" and "="?
And from where are we choosing x,y?
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July 6th, 2010, 08:42 PM   #9
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Re: Hello world!

I figured the second question would get the question out there more easily...

Anyway, that question was where I was going with it... but I've forgotten where I was taking it from there. It was something like... There are different systems which have different rules. Are all of them discovered? If not, which ones are?

If so... then we have to accept that all mathematically systems and objects, including anti-classical logics, omega-categories, sets with any (infinite) cardinality, ... are all discovered. I really cannot believe that objects well within the realm of abstract nonsense are in ay way discovered
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July 6th, 2010, 09:20 PM   #10
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Re: Hello world!

Well, I'm just a junior in High school and I just finished AP Calculus AB, so I haven't really seen a lot of really abstract math, but I guess that with some discoveries, they have the potential to be used as tools, or become part of an invention.Just as fire was integrated into oil lamps or steam engines, natural math has directed us to the more esoteric and unnatural forms of math. It isn't really accurate to say that all of math is invented, and it isn't accurate to say that all of math was discovered, but maybe we can agree that the origins of math come from a discovery, and modern math is more of an invention. Nonetheless, I'm glad that I have found some people who actually have a passion for math as much as I do.
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