My Math Forum  

Go Back   My Math Forum > Math Forums > Math

Math General Math Forum - For general math related discussion and news


Thanks Tree3Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
March 18th, 2019, 05:02 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2009

Posts: 797
Thanks: 298

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8archie View Post
No physical theories are "right", except perhaps on a very superficial level. The best ones are merely the least wrong. Every mathematical model carries assumptions and simplifications that render them no better than approximations.
I don't know archie. I understand your point of course. But do you honestly mean it? The way you say it, is that both geocentrism and heliocentrism are just mathematical models that do give good approximations to reality.
Don't you think that heliocentrism, according to Kepler's laws, is somehow more correct than geocentrism?
Micrm@ss is online now  
 
March 18th, 2019, 06:40 AM   #12
Math Team
 
Joined: Dec 2013
From: Colombia

Posts: 7,663
Thanks: 2643

Math Focus: Mainly analysis and algebra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micrm@ss View Post
The way you say it, is that both geocentrism and heliocentrism are just mathematical models that do give good approximations to reality.
Don't you think that heliocentrism, according to Kepler's laws, is somehow more correct than geocentrism?
Is that not what they are? Obviously one of them gives a much better approximation than the other when other heavenly bodies are considered and is thus much more useful and more correct.

But neither is the truth, is it? Both move about the barycentre of the system, don't they?
v8archie is offline  
March 18th, 2019, 06:44 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Joined: Oct 2009

Posts: 797
Thanks: 298

Quote:
Originally Posted by v8archie View Post
Is that not what they are? Obviously one of them gives a much better approximation than the other when other heavenly bodies are considered and is thus much more useful and more correct.

But neither is the truth, is it? Both move about the barycentre of the system, don't they?
The epicycle theory is essentially applying a Fourier series on the orbit. The accuracy can be arbitrarily close. In fact, when heliocentrism was first proposed by Copernicus, the epicycle model outperformed it.

Agree to disagree I guess. Both the epicycle and the Newton model are mere approximations. Both are incorrect since when you look "close" enough they disagree with experiment. But I maintain that the Newton model is more correct than the epicycle model. I don't see exactly why that is, but I don't like to put them on the same footing. The epicycle model is essentially curve fitting. The Newton model actually offers some sort of "explanation" and has spawned a lot of other theories in physics.
Micrm@ss is online now  
March 18th, 2019, 12:58 PM   #14
Math Team
 
Joined: Dec 2013
From: Colombia

Posts: 7,663
Thanks: 2643

Math Focus: Mainly analysis and algebra
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micrm@ss View Post
Agree to disagree I guess. Both the epicycle and the Newton model are mere approximations. Both are incorrect since when you look "close" enough they disagree with experiment. But I maintain that the Newton model is more correct than the epicycle model.
I don't really see what you are trying to argue about. The real power of the Newtonian model is that it applies to all planetary masses orbiting any star without the need for calculating epicycles specific to other bodies. That's why it's better than epicycles.

But Newton isn't correct, because it's a linear approximation to a better theory (relativity), IIRC.

Relativity isn't correct either - it doesn't work at the quantum level, does it? - but it's the best we've got.
Thanks from topsquark
v8archie is offline  
Reply

  My Math Forum > Math Forums > Math

Tags
approach, isolation, philosophy



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Philosophy of Physics JamSmith Physics 8 March 1st, 2017 01:55 AM
question about probabilistic methods and isolation lemma. ShadiEndrawis Advanced Statistics 0 December 8th, 2015 04:35 PM
Philosophy of math raul21 Math 8 May 26th, 2014 01:46 AM
Philosophy of Math johnr New Users 2 March 3rd, 2014 11:01 AM
philosophy of mathematics davedave New Users 2 September 30th, 2013 04:51 AM





Copyright © 2019 My Math Forum. All rights reserved.