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 September 3rd, 2018, 09:55 PM #1 Senior Member   Joined: Dec 2014 From: Brazil Posts: 203 Thanks: 1 essence and idea Essence: a property or group of properties of something without which it would not exist or would be what it is. Idea: The term idea is used in two senses: as a synonym for concept or, in a broader sense, as an expression that implies a presence of intentionality. The word derives from the Greek idea or eidea, whose etymological root is eidos - image. Concept: The concept, while it is the expression of a predicate common to all things of the same species. One arrives at these common predicates or attributes by analyzing various things of the same species. As you can see, idea and essence have very similar definitions. Let's work with the definition of idea as concept to get to the point that we want to demonstrate. The definition says that the idea is made up of predicates common to something of the same species. I ask: Is it possible to generate an idea that has common predicates drawn from two other ideas? From what we define not, because each idea represents a different species, then there is no way that one species encompasses two others, if that happens, the first two ideas are actually particular case of the true species. Let us extend the reasoning to the realm of numbers to arrive at a conclusion which, if not unprecedented, at least clarifies the question better. If we want to get the idea of real numbers, for example, we will find all the predicates in common (or in other words: Properties) present in real numbers. Let's put aside all that is accidental to these numbers. In short, we are within the definitions seen above. If we think of the idea of integers and rational numbers, and want to extract the idea of real numbers, we will see that only the idea of a real number is really the true one, the other two cases being only particular cases of the latter case. Where we want to go: There is also no idea, in the case of the idea of numbers, of giving rise to an idea that has common predicates of two other ideas of numbers. Thus, the numbers as are defined, for example: 1,2,3,4, etc. They can’t be considered ideas, because if they were, the idea of the real number would be an idea derived from other ideas. When Plato, Pythagoreans and so on. They say that numbers as defined (numerals) have meaning, are making an error, because such abstract entities are not ideas, they are not concepts. As we have shown above. We will show later that, in fact, the first set to be considered is not the numbers, but the set of ideas, which has a preponderance over the numerals. we will show that ideas can not be the result of an empirical abstraction derived from the Aristotelian tradition, and finally we want to demonstrate that the set of ideas is limited, constituting a totality and possessing a character of perfection and primacy.
 September 4th, 2018, 03:02 AM #2 Senior Member   Joined: Feb 2016 From: Australia Posts: 1,838 Thanks: 653 Math Focus: Yet to find out. Which set does your idea of creating a set of ideas belong to? Thanks from Sebastian Garth and topsquark
 September 5th, 2018, 08:38 AM #3 Senior Member   Joined: Dec 2014 From: Brazil Posts: 203 Thanks: 1 essence and idea By the definition of concept given above as being a sum of predicates of a species (or collection), we must admit that species always refers to a grouping. If the concept definition starts from an empirical basis, a problem arises. Let's imagine that something happens or something that has only one element, in this case we can not conceptualize this element, because its concept would be its own description, which does not correspond to the definition of concept as a result of predicates of a grouping. This suggests that an idea can not be originated from an observation of experience. because if this were so, we would consider the conceptualization of only one element. Soon an idea or a concept has to be something already existing before the experience. It remains to be seen whether or not the set of ideas is limited. Last edited by lemgruber; September 5th, 2018 at 08:44 AM.
 September 9th, 2018, 01:27 AM #4 Senior Member   Joined: Dec 2014 From: Brazil Posts: 203 Thanks: 1 essence and idea That is exactly the problem, if our empirical apprehension generates the idea, then it would be possible to generate an idea of a single object. Suppose, for instance, that we are presented with a singular object in the empirical realm, as you said, if the empirical apprehension was the generator of the idea, then there would be an idea of that singular object, would it not? But how is this possible if the definition of idea implies grouping? The definition of the idea here is taken from wikipedia. I am questioning that if this definition is valid then it can not be drawn from our empirical perception. Actually an idea of a singular object would contain all the predicates of this object would be itself idea and thing in itself at the same time. Thank you for your participation and I urge you to explore this subject, which is actually my real intention.
 September 10th, 2018, 09:57 AM #5 Senior Member   Joined: Dec 2014 From: Brazil Posts: 203 Thanks: 1 essence and idea we come to a conclusion: a singular object would be unintelligible, so any object that occurs in the empirical world (ie the physical universe) must necessarily have at least one characteristic in common with another object.

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