My Math Forum  

Go Back   My Math Forum > Science Forums > Computer Science

Computer Science Computer Science Forum


Thanks Tree7Thanks
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
August 3rd, 2016, 03:10 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2014
From: UK

Posts: 679
Thanks: 264

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joppy View Post
You check out the link i posted regarding IoT? I'm not saying it's useleful, or encouraging anyone to bother with it xD, but, considering the recent data and IoT, it's interesting to see.
I agree, it is interesting. There will probably always be a need for some assembler but once the compilers and support catch up, IoT use should reduce.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joppy View Post
What do you mean by 'gets going'? VHDL has been around for yonks. I read the article, but not entirely sure how it ties in, considering the fact that we can just use C/C++ over VHDL in most cases.
Yeah, it's been around for decade, but it isn't that widely used in the computing world. You can't really use C over VHDL since there's no CPU architecture to run the code on.
weirddave is offline  
 
August 3rd, 2016, 03:54 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2016
From: Australia

Posts: 841
Thanks: 305

Math Focus: Yet to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirddave View Post
I agree, it is interesting. There will probably always be a need for some assembler but once the compilers and support catch up, IoT use should reduce.
True, just a temporary spike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by weirddave View Post
Yeah, it's been around for decades, but it isn't that widely used in the computing world. You can't really use C over VHDL since there's no CPU architecture to run the code on.
Ah, sorry. I didn't mean VHDL is directly replaceable by C, just that i doubt that VHDL will become widespread. e.g., I think most people would choose C over VHDL when programming an FPGA.
Joppy is offline  
August 3rd, 2016, 06:27 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2014
From: UK

Posts: 679
Thanks: 264

I admit, I didn't realise there were so many C compilers available.
C-to-hardware compiler (HLL synthesis) - Stack Overflow
I'm not sure how well they translate (usually to VHDL or verilog). All the FPGA people I know use VHDL, not C.
This (which links to the URL above) has a small but interesting discussion.
Can you program FPGAs in C-like languages? - Stack Overflow
I'm not convinced C (or a subset of it) is the easiest way to design hardware.
I still use schematic entry if I want to knock something up quick (managed to fill a spartan 3 1400 with a schematic design)
weirddave is offline  
August 3rd, 2016, 09:52 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2016
From: Australia

Posts: 841
Thanks: 305

Math Focus: Yet to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirddave View Post
All the FPGA people I know use VHDL, not C.
I think this is changing thanks to Xilinx. Funny that xD.

Quote:
I'm not convinced C (or a subset of it) is the easiest way to design hardware.
I'm not either to be honest. But can i ask why you think that?
Joppy is offline  
August 3rd, 2016, 11:29 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2014
From: UK

Posts: 679
Thanks: 264

Traditional languages like C are fairly sequential in operation, bridging the gap between traditional programmers and massively parallel capable logic is a big ask.

If you are abstracted away from the logic, how easy is it to force the C to compile into hardware in the way you require? Would the C programmer even comprehend that you might need to design a for loop that does or doesn't complete in a single clock cycle? For example, I've been tinkering with a FIR filter in which I want to use block RAM and compute it one element at a time to save resources rather than complete the whole calculation in one clock. A C programmer might end up with a huge design that's really fast when you really wanted it to be a bit slower and use a fraction of the resources.
The same problem applies to VHDL, but because you are closer to the logic, there are relatively simple methods for bending the design to fit your requirements and because you're doing VHDL, you understand that it's logic and not a processor
weirddave is offline  
August 4th, 2016, 12:02 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2016
From: Australia

Posts: 841
Thanks: 305

Math Focus: Yet to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirddave View Post
Traditional languages like C are fairly sequential in operation, bridging the gap between traditional programmers and massively parallel capable logic is a big ask.

If you are abstracted away from the logic, how easy is it to force the C to compile into hardware in the way you require? Would the C programmer even comprehend that you might need to design a for loop that does or doesn't complete in a single clock cycle? For example, I've been tinkering with a FIR filter in which I want to use block RAM and compute it one element at a time to save resources rather than complete the whole calculation in one clock. A C programmer might end up with a huge design that's really fast when you really wanted it to be a bit slower and use a fraction of the resources.
The same problem applies to VHDL, but because you are closer to the logic, there are relatively simple methods for bending the design to fit your requirements and because you're doing VHDL, you understand that it's logic and not a processor
Hmmmm. Lol.
Thanks from weirddave
Joppy is offline  
August 4th, 2016, 12:50 AM   #17
Senior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2014
From: UK

Posts: 679
Thanks: 264

The comments section is interesting:
Xilinx FPGAs in C for Free | Hackaday

I've only just got started with VHDL (apart from testbenches, had to use VHDL for those with my schematic designs), in my opinion, it's awful and fairly easy at the same time (I'm using '93 in Xilinx ISE).
Thanks from Joppy
weirddave is offline  
August 4th, 2016, 02:49 AM   #18
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2016
From: Australia

Posts: 841
Thanks: 305

Math Focus: Yet to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by weirddave View Post
it's awful and fairly easy at the same time
Bahaha. That was my impression also...

Quote:
The comments section is interesting:
Indeed they are. A nice distribution of reactions/opinions from both sides.

I just went over some of my old VHDL code from a couple years back.. Implemented state machine for a traffic intersection lol. And yeah, it's really not that bad now i look at it..

I just feel there will be way more computer science majors coming out than electronic et. al engineering majors. Which... not to say the comp sci guys can't handle VHDL or anything, it's just the more people that can get a job done the better i guess. Hence, the possible eventuation of C or something better known taking over (that would be a long way away though).
Joppy is offline  
August 6th, 2016, 07:29 PM   #19
Newbie
 
palidehx's Avatar
 
Joined: Aug 2016
From: On Earth

Posts: 3
Thanks: 0

Python!
Best choose for starting! And after starting!
All things that you will need exist in Python!
All things
palidehx is offline  
August 6th, 2016, 07:38 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2016
From: Australia

Posts: 841
Thanks: 305

Math Focus: Yet to find out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by palidehx View Post
Python!
Best choose for starting! And after starting!
All things that you will need exist in Python!
All things
Haha ... Here we go again xD.
Joppy is offline  
Reply

  My Math Forum > Science Forums > Computer Science

Tags
language, learn, programing



Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Basic programing - truncate a number Melody2 Computer Science 6 October 27th, 2013 07:35 PM
embedded programing pros and cons fredfmah Computer Science 4 November 28th, 2012 12:38 AM
Linear Programing zoidberg Linear Algebra 0 December 11th, 2010 11:24 PM
Linear Programing problem dha1973 Economics 0 December 9th, 2009 10:28 PM
Linear programing word problem JudaStar Linear Algebra 2 February 20th, 2009 01:34 PM





Copyright © 2017 My Math Forum. All rights reserved.