February 4th, 2014, 03:52 AM  #1 
Newbie Joined: Jan 2014 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0  Finding an ordered set example
Hello, I try to solve an exercise which confuses me a bit. The task is to: "Find an example of an ordered set, which is not type even though it has the first element and each element has a direct successor and (except the first one) a direct predecessor". Lets call this set A. What I assume about this exercise (but I am not sure if it is correct) is: 1) The ordering we are talking about is not a linear ordering (i.e. we have only reflexivity, antisymmetry and transitivity, no guarantee that 2) The first element is an element x that satisfies . As opposed to a maximal element m which satisfies . 3) A direct successor of an element a is an element b which satisfies . A direct predecessor of a is defined similarly as the element b which satisfies . 4) The direct successor and the direct predecessor must be unique, so it we are not allowed to have two predecessors b and b' of an element a, like: event though under assumption 1) we are not required to have nor . I though of a construct which I would call "two omegas with a common first element", formally: with the ordering defined as: The set A is obviously countable and it could be made isomorphic with (e.g. by adding ) but in the current state it is not. My question is: are my assumptions/definitions 14 correct and is the example o.k.? I am equally interested in the verification of my understanding of definitions and my assumptions as in verifying my example. Especially assumption 4) is interesting to me, not only in the context of this exercise, but also in the general context (i.e. does the direct successor always have to be unique or not?) Note: this is not a homework so don't tell me to go and ask the lecturer. I don't have one, that's why I am asking the question here. 
February 4th, 2014, 04:25 AM  #2 
Newbie Joined: Jan 2014 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0  Re: Finding an ordered set example
After some more thinking I realized that my example is not consistent with the assumption 4) (because z has two successors and ) and also I think that it can be proven by induction that an ordered set that satisfies all the conditions 14 is isomorphic with . So, something must be done differently, maybe assumption 4) is not o.k. or there exist a different example?

February 4th, 2014, 06:55 AM  #3 
Global Moderator Joined: Nov 2006 From: UTC 5 Posts: 16,046 Thanks: 938 Math Focus: Number theory, computational mathematics, combinatorics, FOM, symbolic logic, TCS, algorithms  Re: Finding an ordered set example
I didn't read your post closely, but what about this example? Elements are of the form ("N", n) with n a positive integer, or ("Z", n) with n an integer. (S, m) < (S, n) if and only if m < n, and ("N", m) < ("Z", n) for any m and n (and the reverse is never true). 
February 4th, 2014, 08:33 AM  #4 
Newbie Joined: Jan 2014 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0  Re: Finding an ordered set example
Nice example, thanks! As for showing that the proposed set (let's call it A) is not type (which is pretty obvious, but I would like to have a formal proof) does it suffice to say that in for any two elements a b there is always a finite number of elements between a and b and in A for any elements ("N", a) and ("Z", b) there is an infinite number of elements such that ("N", a) x ("Z", b) ?

February 4th, 2014, 11:22 AM  #5 
Global Moderator Joined: Nov 2006 From: UTC 5 Posts: 16,046 Thanks: 938 Math Focus: Number theory, computational mathematics, combinatorics, FOM, symbolic logic, TCS, algorithms  Re: Finding an ordered set example
Sure, that should do.


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