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 November 7th, 2019, 09:58 PM #1 Senior Member   Joined: Aug 2018 From: România Posts: 110 Thanks: 7 The inverse of a function Hello all, A high school problem: Which is the inverse of the function $\displaystyle f(x)=-x+\log_3 x$ , where $\displaystyle x>0$? All the best, Integrator Last edited by Integrator; November 7th, 2019 at 10:01 PM. November 8th, 2019, 04:27 AM #2 Global Moderator   Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 21,107 Thanks: 2324 Did you invent this problem? The domain needs to be further restricted for $f(x)$ to be invertible. November 8th, 2019, 09:25 PM   #3
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 Originally Posted by skipjack Did you invent this problem? The domain needs to be further restricted for $f(x)$ to be invertible.
Hello,

The problem is from another forum and I do not know to solve it ...
I do not understand!The domain is $\displaystyle x>0$ is not sufficient?Thank you very much!

All the best,

Integrator November 8th, 2019, 10:25 PM   #4
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 Originally Posted by Integrator Hello, The problem is from another forum and I do not know to solve it ... I do not understand!The domain is $\displaystyle x>0$ is not sufficient?Thank you very much! All the best, Integrator
just graph the thing and you'll see it's modal on x>0 November 9th, 2019, 05:14 AM   #5
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Integrator The domain is $\displaystyle x>0$ is not sufficient?
With that domain, $f(x)$ isn't invertible. For $f(x)$ to be real, $x > 0$ is needed anyway.

Were various choices offered for the answer? If so, what were they? November 9th, 2019, 08:59 PM   #6
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 Originally Posted by skipjack With that domain, $f(x)$ isn't invertible. For $f(x)$ to be real, $x > 0$ is needed anyway. Were various choices offered for the answer? If so, what were they?
Hello,

https://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?...se+-x%2Blog_3x ?Thank you very much!

All the best,

Integrator November 9th, 2019, 09:11 PM   #7
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 Originally Posted by Integrator What do you think about: ...
The question is how to get that and what it even means.

For one thing, as has been pointed out, $- x + \log x$ isn't injective so it's not clear even what it means for it to have an inverse. But as the Wolfram Alpha picture shows, you can certainly reflect the graph in the line $y = x$. So the first thing is to properly define the functional inverse in this case.

By the way I'm using $\log$ as the natural log and ignoring the base 3 so that there's one less irrelevant detail.

The trick to get this line of reasoning off the ground is that $e^{-x + \log x} = x e^{-x}$, which should look somewhat familiar. The function $x e^x$ is strictly increasing for $x \geq 0$ and therefore has an inverse, though not an elementary one. Its inverse is defined as the Lambert W function.

Now the idea is to use this to get Wolfram's answer. You have to account for the $- x$ and at some point undo the exponentiation. I've made some progress but not enough.

This is of course no high school problem. Not in my high school anyway!

Last edited by Maschke; November 9th, 2019 at 09:34 PM. November 9th, 2019, 09:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Maschke The question is how to get that and what it even means. For one thing, as has been pointed out, $- x + \log x$ isn't injective so it's not clear even what it means for it to have an inverse. But as the Wolfram Alpha picture shows, you can certainly reflect the graph in the line $y = x$. So the first thing is to properly define the functional inverse in this case. By the way I'm using $\log$ as the natural log and ignoring the base 3 so that there's one less irrelevant detail. The trick to get this line of reasoning off the ground is that $e^{-x + \log x} = x e^{-x}$, which should look somewhat familiar. The function $x e^x$ is strictly increasing for $x \geq 0$ and therefore has an inverse, though not an elementary one. Its inverse is defined as the Lambert W function. Now the idea is to use this to get Wolfram's answer. You have to account for the $- x$ and at some point undo the exponentiation. I've made some progress but not enough. This is of course no high school problem. Not in my high school anyway!
Hello,

Some say the function is not invertible...
Thank you very much!

All the best,

Integrator November 9th, 2019, 10:03 PM   #9
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Quote:
 Originally Posted by Integrator Some say the function is not invertible...
Yes since it's not injective it's not invertible in the traditional sense.

But its graph can be reflected in the line $y = x$ and apparently if one is clever one can work out Wolfram's answer from the W function insight. So the problem is to (1) define what inverse means in this context and (2) work out the algebraic manipulations to get Wolfram's answer. November 10th, 2019, 04:32 AM #10 Global Moderator   Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 21,107 Thanks: 2324 Let $\text{W}$ denote the Lambert W function. Let $y$ denote the inverse of the function $-x + \log_3(x)$ with domain (0, 1], then $x = -y + \log_3(y) = -y + \ln(y)/\!\ln(3)$, where $x \leqslant -1$ and $0 < y \leqslant 1$, so $\ln(3)x = -\ln(3)y + \ln(y)$, which implies $3^{\large x} = ye^{-\large\ln(3)y}$, and so $-\ln(3)3^x = -\ln(3)ye^{-\large\ln(3)y}$. Hence $-\ln(3)y = \text{W}\!\left(-\ln(3)3^{\large x}\right)$, i.e. $y = -\text{W}\!\left(-\ln(3)3^{\large x})/\!\ln(3\right)$. If $x \geqslant 1$, the inverse is $-\text{W}_{-1}\!\left(-\ln(3)3^{\large x})/\!\ln(3\right)$. (I've omitted some justification of the above.) Thanks from Maschke, topsquark and idontknow Tags function, inverse Thread Tools Show Printable Version Email this Page Display Modes Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

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